The first notice Cory received claimed to be a second notice, and he assumes he missed the first one, but I'm wondering if this was deliberate mischaracterization (by the sender) of what was actually a first notice, either in an attempt to establish that the recipient was willfully continuing the violation after a first notice, or in an attempt to induce the recipient to come to this conclusion themselves.
For all I know, the law has effective sanctions against this practice, but I imagine there are ways of sending a first notice in a way that make it unlikely to be received - a typo in the address, or perhaps an email crafted so as to likely be classified as spam.
I wonder does making a minor mistake in attribution really count as "wilful infringement"? As a layman, I would expect that any reasonable attempts to comply with license requirements should indicate that infringement was accidental. Sure, if it's a large company whose legal advisor instructs do x to avoid maximum penalty, with intention to infringe the copyright, that should probably still count as wilful infringement.
Spirit-of-the-law practice means most honest judges would quickly throw out this sort of technicality-based argument, particularly in the anglosphere.
Sadly, depending on the specific country it happens in, a defendant might still have to pay significant legal fees just to reach a point where the judge can tell trolls to go away. And that's where the business model kicks in: the trolls will offer to go away on their own if defendant pays them $LikelyLegalFees / 2, making it cheaper than the alternative.
THe US Federal 5th Circuit Court of Appeals would like to have a word with you. Particularly the past decade or so they have been truly awful when considering cases; ignoring precedence, common sense, democracy, and practicality whenever possible.
That's why I said "most honest judges", perfection is not of this world. I reckon that even just the fact that you're familiar with one specific set of people for being awkward, indicates that the overwhelming majority of other judges are not - otherwise the US 5th Circuit wouldn't even register, you'd just assume everyone does it.
A 9-0 victory including Obama and Biden's appointees?
The gist of CO argument being that the state executive can unilaterally declare an event an insurrection (there has been no finding to date in court) thus blocking a candidate for federal office?
The liberal justices threw this in the trash because they recognize how dangerous this is. After all, imagine if everyone who participated in a BLM riot [1] in 2020 were declared an insurrectionist by red-leaning states and barred from office?
[1] Which were far more destructive and deadly than Jan 6 and did target federal buildings
> The gist of CO argument being that the state executive can unilaterally declare an event an insurrection (there has been no finding to date in court) thus blocking a candidate for federal office?
The state executive didn't act unilaterally to declare it an insurrection. Though even if they had, I don't believe the constitution includes a definition of an insurrection or the process for how it is determined.
> The liberal justices threw this in the trash because they recognize how dangerous this is.
A presumed dangerous outcome should have no bearing on how the amendment is interpreted as written. Doing so moves the decision out of the realm of legal question and makes it political. Further, setting a precedent for "the ends justify the means" seems extremely dangerous itself.
> After all, imagine if everyone who participated in a BLM riot [1] in 2020 were declared an insurrectionist by red-leaning states and barred from office?
That's definitely an interesting question, though one that wasn't part of this case so the court didn't have to decide it. Its worth noting that the intelligibility in 14.3 is specific to those who already took an oath of office. Only those taking part in or supporting the riots and previously took an oath of office would be at risk.
> No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath...
The 14th amendment is specific to people who already to an oath of office. Individuals taking part in, or supporting, the BLM riots wouldn't be impacted unless they had already been sworn into a public office.
Surely there were some individuals that fall under that stipulation, at which point I see nothing written in the amendment or the case law I've seen they clearly states whether or not a state could deem the riots an insurrection and deem those people ineligible.
The supreme court did claim that states don't have this power and that's the core of my issue with their ruling. The amendment clearly states that anyone partaking in insurrection is ineligible for office, and that congress has the ability to enforce that disability. The amendment is written as self-executing and includes no stipulation on who can enforce it or what is considered insurrection with regards to the amendment - the justices invented their own understanding outside of what was actually written.
Edit: one additional note here, the idea of SCOTUS going beyond the scope of the case at hand to set precedent for hypothetical future cases is extremely bad and goes against standards set by many of the sitting justices themselves. Some of the justices covered this in included opinions, but as little as two years ago Roberts specifically claimed that the justices should stop a ruling as soon as they determine the minimum decision required for the case at hand. The majority's inclusion of new precedent for a situation that isn't being litigated is potentially very dangerous and opens the door for the bench to create case law outside the expected processes of either legislation by elected officials or litigation flowing through the full legal process.
You realize that the liberal justices concurred because of the threat of cracked southern/midwestern other states removing presidents besides trump from the ballot if this precedent were established, right? If the liberals had been on the winning side the opinion would have read vastly differently than it did.
The majority decided to answer a question not part of the case, namely that Congress must act to invoke 14.3. That determination means that the entire amendment is not self-executing. They leaned on the 14.5 for this, though a strict reading would be that the amendment is worded as self-executing with no stipulations and 14.5 only offers Congress an avenue to act for a universal answer to, in this case, the question of the eligibility disability.
The ruling justifies this by saying that it seems nun reasonable for states to have the power of deeming a federal candidate ineligible. That meaning is not stipulated at all in the amendment, and goes in the face of both states' authority to run the election process and states' duty to enforce federal law (in this case the ineligibility of a candidate).
The amendment does not stipulate that the power to enforce sits only with Congress, the bench made this up. The amendment does not limit the authority to enforce the amendment only with the federal government, they made this up. Nowhere in the amendment is it written as non self-executing, to the contrary 14.3 specifically provides a way for Congress to undo the intelligibility after the fact.
> Spirit-of-the-law practice means most honest judges would quickly throw out this sort of technicality-based argument, particularly in the anglosphere.
The intent of the law is a big part of what courts deal with in Roman law/civil law countries too. In Norway statutes are typically fairly general leaving precision to preparatory works, Supreme Court precedent, administrative regulations and the courts. So the spirit and intent of the law is certainly a big thing in at least some non-Anglosphere legal systems.
And the Anglosphere is hardly uniform in this respect, in particular in recent decades there has been a proliferation of detailed strict liability laws in England which restrict the courts abilities to interpret the law.
Absolutely, but it's not a certainty - after all, this scum is still made of law professionals, who file paperwork for a living. They know you know there is a slight risk they might be serious, and try to exploit it.
"Another bunch went even further: they uploaded gay porn to the Pirate Bay, but labeled it as if it were top-40 music collections, then demanded huge payouts in exchange for not filing lawsuits that would permanently link their victims’ names with extremely explicit gay porn video titles in online searches."
Wow this is such an amazing and unethical scam. What do you do in a situation like this?
Make sure that when you are downloading or uploading anything, and I mean anything from the internet that you do it though VPNs or other services that place some barrier between you and copyright trolls. You don't need NSA-levels of security to avoid the trolls, just enough of a barrier that their automated tools cannot see you so easily.
If you run a website, generate all your own content. Don't use stock photos. FYI, film and TV have been dealing with the same issue for decades. It is normal on a film/TV set for there to be zero tolerance for anything that might be subject to copyright. Any painting on a wall will either be blurred or the film will commission a new painting. That is a healthy policy for any website: if you want a little drawing of a mouse, pay someone to create one for you. Don't pay 5$ for a stock image that may or may not be appropriately licensed.
Troll files bad faith lawsuit on behalf of Falcon Ltd. claiming S. Andworm infringed upon their copyright on multiple gay porn titles uploaded to TorrentSite. This stuff gets picked up by sites scraping dockets and resold as "background check" services.
You are now falsely associated with this content in an authoritative context. The suit will obviously fail but until then people will see a lawsuit was filed against you and by who. The scam works because nobody questions the legitimacy or sees it through to resolution.
"Fake and gay" has never described something so aptly.
There isn't much you can do about bad faith claims. Claimants either face no consequence for false reporting or are able to plausibly deny it.
It's actually worse than described. One of the details of this never really made it into the lawsuit, but in my computer support business I encountered customers who were victims of this scam at the time.
They didn't just upload gay porn in torrents, they intentionally infected those downloads with ransomware that would hold your whole computer hostage with legal threats demanding that you call the lawfirm and pay anywhere between $150,000 and $400,000. With the threatened alternative of releasing your name in public.
I personally witnessed this about three times. They were absolute bastards.
If you are one of the attorneys in that case, then you are found guilty of fraud and extortion, are sent to jail, are disbarred from the practice of law, and are forced to repay all of your proceeds from your scheme.
Call their bluff. It’s just porn, they’ll look a lot worse for throwing a hissy fit over scamming and blackmailing you than you will for allegedly watching gay porn. Scamming attempts over the internet is a well-known phenomenon- no one’s going to hold it against you if someone attempts to blackmail you, and you refuse to let them.
That includes PeerTube and other decentralized video platforms, at least not without turning off WebRTC swarming.
The reason why this scam works is:
- The defamatory nature of the content in question (which can't be fixed by law). In other words, a lot of people don't want it people thinking they watch gay porn
- The up-to-$150k-per-infringement statutory damages authorized by the Digital Theft Deterrence and Copyright Damages Improvement Act of 1999, which just barely makes copyright litigation a profitable enterprise
- Inherent privacy vulnerabilities caused by P2P communications in a public swarm - i.e. the ability for anyone to obtain evidentiary proof that you downloaded the copyrighted fake gay porn
All of these factors are integral to the scam and it would fall apart if any one of them were removed. Take away the stigma regarding gay porn and nobody would settle. Take away the statutory damages and downloaders are only liable for the cost of a copy, if that, making copyright litigation against curious individuals completely unprofitable. And if the scammers hosted the content themselves (to get IP addresses), anyone could easily use historical DNS archival records to prove that the scammers hosted the content. If a copyright owner deliberately uploads their own content, the downloaders have an implied license to download it.
Or at least you could argue that as a credible legal defense. Remember that these scammers are only barely profitable because they encourage people to settle quickly. A lot of them would drop the case immediately if you even bothered to file a motion to dismiss. For this reason, the scammers would lie under penalty of perjury about the uploads being unauthorized, and once they got discovered they wound up going to jail for lying their ass off.
The Pixsy website pretty clearly gives a California address as a business location. Was this info sent to the CA Bar? If an attorney is really not involved, that could be practicing law without a license.
Photography in particular is frustratingly easy to get wrong. Even if someone tries to be careful, there are a number of conditions that I'm guessing aren't met to the letter a lot of the time. Furthermore, when things like presentation slides are being reused and modified, attributions get separated from photographs all the time.
Finally that doesn't even get into CC-non-commercial which no one can agree what it means and that Creative Commons itself punted on defining in the latest license iteration.
> Photography in particular is frustratingly easy to get wrong.
Not directly relevant but this reminded me of an article I probably saw linked here a few years ago where two photographers took nearly identical photos and people on the internet accused both of them of stealing the other's work.
In terms of writing, someone I know was mildly miffed years back that I had taken an observation from one of his columns and used it for my own. A mutual acquaintance pointed out that my column had actually appeared first :-)
For anybody that didn't read the whole article, I'll point attention to this section at the end:
"It could get much, much worse. Rightsholder groups are backing a Copyright Office plan to make this kind of robosigning into law, forcing all online platforms to institute filters that automatically remove materials that an algorithm finds to be infringing, without human oversight or judgement."
Here's a link to that document in the Federal Register [0]. Public comments apparently closed on Feb. 8th, but it may be worth keeping an eye on.
A "bug" is a very generous term for how severely punitive CC 1.x, 2.x and 3.x were.
It was flatly bad and wrong and did exactly the opposite of what it was promised to do--permit rights holders to let users share their work and attribute it. It tricked people into a legal trap of minutiae and put users at risk.
This is sort of my general issue with Creative Commons.
First, it's not just about attribution as the term would be understood in many other contexts.
And then you have the Chinese menu of no-commercial and no-derivatives to encourage people who might otherwise hesitate to use CC to do so. But then those terms are ill-defined and people widely disagree on them.
I actually find "bug" to be the most apt name for it. Their intent was to enable a feature, therefore writing it this way was not an error: it, however, did not take into account all the side-effects.
They did err on the side of caution, to protect the contributor, but when doing so, they did not take into account that it might be abused as well.
At what point do you differentiate a bug from a design flaw? This reads like different devs were provided conflicting requirements that had no discussion between devs. It wasn't until after the branches were merged that the problem existed as the unit tests from each dev worked as expected.
Clever. Since not obeying some item of a CC license implies that you're not covered by such license, "bad guys" might induce someone to infringe the CC and then violate the copyright
Well in this case, Doctorow is one of the drafters of the CC license, so he's effectively criticizing what he sees as an abuse of his own creation here.
Which he is rightfully doing - CC4.0 adds the "forced grace period" you find in a lot of other licenses, where there's basically a period of time between being in breach of the license and when the license gets revoked. Usually the way thats defined is that you have something like 30 days to "cure" the mistake once you're notified. Only after those 30 days do you lose the rights granted by the license itself.
It specifically exists to avoid this kind of copyright trolling, where a lawyer uses the complicated demands in the text of the license to make a mess of the intent behind it. The actual viability of that type of trolling is questionable (German courts threw it out for example), but the threat of legal fees can be too costly for most so it works as an extortion mechanism.
(The main notable variant of this is in pre-3.0 versions of the GPL, where the 30 days would start the moment you breached the license rather than being notified. 3.0 fixed that and I've seen people who prefer GPL2.0 often modify this term in specific to be more like GPL3.0 so they can avoid the headache.)
One thing I wonder about CC is whether you have to include attribution and license in the same page the work is embedded. It's common sense that this would be the case, but in Wikipedia, for example, CC works don't actually have attribution in the page they're shown, you have to click on them to see the attribution.
I wish this was clarified. Like, why is Wikipedia allowed to do this? Is it because they're thumbnails?
TIL that Hal Abelson, nerd-famous for the programming book _Structure_and_Interpretation_of_Computer_Programs_ (SICP), was involved in creating Creative Commons. Amazing achievements!
> However, Titan Media’s lawyer Gill Sperlein told TorrentFreak that this is absolutely not the case.
> “This is not a scheme to make money. My clients are hurt immensely by copyright infringement and they are not going to make it worse by actually distributing their works on these networks,” he told us.
Yeah. Right. I guess mysterious strangers keep uploading that porn disguised as something else for no good reason. How did they find it themselves if it is mislabeled?
Even if they didn't upload it themselves, going after people who clearly did not mean to download gay porn and trying to shame them into submission is absolutely despicable leech-like behavior deserving of every bit of contempt. I do not understand how these people are able to exist in society. If it was my own father doing that, we'd have a falling out.
So... I'm somewhere between "yes obviously CC is intending to facilitate reuse" and "yes obviously people who choose it often do so because they see others choosing it and don't read the fine details" and also "the majority of uses are probably acceptable by the creators"...
... and: if you wanted to just allow reuse we have a fantastically well-tread license for that - Public Domain. CC requires attribution.
That means it requires attribution. Among other things. That is arguably the main point of CC over Public Domain.
So this is kinda working as intended? There are obviously literal malicious trolls (manipulative, or following the law but intentionally targeting the most vulnerable rather than the main violators), but the amount of companies flagrantly violating these licenses is extreme and I don't feel any sympathy for them. Grabbing images off Google without researching their license is a fast track to getting sued, and it should be. That's the crux of any "don't steal from artists" and "exposure is not payment" argument.
There's an enormous pattern of "it's okay to use X if I say it's not mine" both individually and commercially and it's not okay. The whole point of these licenses is to have a lever to turn that around and enforce payment, to try to keep the ecosystem as a whole healthy so individuals can live off it. Commercial entities that don't hard-require every image posted to their blog to be either new or come from e.g. Getty are willingly playing fast and loose and hoping they don't get sued.
Not-for-profit individuals (e.g. personal blog posts) making an attempt at attribution: yeah I think the vast majority are entirely fine with that, but would lightly prefer accurate attribution, and targeting them is a troll act.
Is that a majority of violators and CC creators? ... I don't know. Possibly? Should trolls be targeting them? Heck no. Does the 30 day grace period allow companies to willingly violate this and only fix it after they've made their profit and have nothing to lose, and the creator nothing to gain? Yes absolutely.
If you actually don't care about attribution, distribute under Public Domain and ask for attribution when you think it's worthwhile. Many will likely say yes - I've seen loads of public domain images used with attribution. People like public domain contributions.
If you do care, legal teeth are kinda required, and choosing CC means explicitly choosing legal teeth.
>The whole point of these licenses is to have a lever to turn that around and enforce payment, to try to keep the ecosystem as a whole healthy so individuals can live off it.
I mostly disagree. As I recall early discussions, it was more rooted in enabling remix culture while ensuring creatives received appropriate credit.
If direct monetization is the main consideration, I don't know why you'd use Creative Commons at all.
That remix culture is definitely what it turned into and possibly what it was intended for and tons of that is a great success... but then why have violation terms at all? Seems like that "remix, please attribute" is just signaling intent, and then there's no need for a license dictating how violations are handled. It'd just be public domain with an unofficial request tacked on.
---
I should probably clarify that I think a lot of these are coming from people who want to do more of their art, and that requires money, and many of them have been tricked into exposure rather than payment and that leads to them not doing more art because they're too busy with other stuff that does pay so they can live. It's a time bomb that isn't generally recognized until it explodes, and it almost always does, and then they care deeply and go looking for legal teeth.
Exposure can be great. It's overwhelmingly exploited by companies that are capable of paying but choose not to. Changing that is why licenses have terms like this, otherwise what's the point of the license? Make it Public Domain.
In a prior stint as an IT industry analyst, we eventually started a non-paywall blog and (rarely) did free appearances at industry conferences. But people tried to get us to do free stuff all the time for the "exposure."
Especially starting out it can be really tempting. But you have to really keep it in check if you're running a business.
>Seems like that "remix, please attribute" is just signaling intent, and then there's no need for a license dictating how violations are handled.
Viewed from the distance of 20ish years the CC licenses (other than CC0) look way too complicated. And it's not like CC works are routinely credited, even if imperfectly, anyway. It's not even clear to me that the MIT license couldn't just have been used (or extended) for non-code use.
> if you wanted to just allow reuse we have a fantastically well-tread license for that - Public Domain
Public Domain isn't a license. It's a problematic legal concept. It's not clear whether you actually can place something into the public domain if it isn't in there automatically (for example being published pre-1922). Sure, you can say "I place this work in the public domain", but will that actually have the legal effect you want? Basically you are saying you relinquish ownership of the work, but if you don't own it, you can't claim to control what other people do with it--including claiming ownership of it under other legal concepts, such as the concept of "abandoned property"--if you find something lying around and nobody else claims ownership of it, you can. "Public Domain" gives no shield whatever against such shenanigans.
>Public Domain isn't a license. It's a problematic legal concept. ...
Fair. I'll keep that in mind and try to find details for the future :)
>[Under public domain] you can't claim to control what other people do with it
Which is exactly what CC without actual legal threats achieves, yes. Which is why I say people do care, so making it toothless seems to defeat the point.
As far as I'm aware, the rest of that (mostly ownership) is covered by copyright, which is applied by default if you say nothing.
So: saying nothing and distributing it however you like already achieves more than CC-without-teeth because you can already sue people for using it or claiming it as theirs, and just choose not to.
Which is why this whole change feels self-defeating to me.
> copyright, which is applied by default if you say nothing
But does not allow reuse. So it's irrelevant to a discussion of what to do if you do want to allow reuse.
> you can already sue people for using it or claiming it as theirs, and just choose not to
But that puts anyone who wants to reuse your content in good faith at the mercy of your whim about whether or not to sue them. That is not a good basis for facilitating reuse.
> this whole change feels self-defeating to me
Meaning, fixing the attribution clauses in CC so that people have a reasonable time to cure violations before the $150K lawsuit threat? I don't see how that makes CC licenses any more or less "toothless" than they were before. It increases the difficulty of copyleft trolling, which was what it was intended to do. Yes, it means a 30 day delay after you give notice before you can sue someone for violating your license--but anyone who fixes the violation within 30 days of you giving them notice is not someone you want to sue anyway, because they're a good faith user.
If we're talking about individuals or small businesses, what makes any license toothless in our current legal environment is the cost of a lawsuit. If you're an individual or small business and large corporation X reuses your content without meeting the terms of your license, whether it's the original CC or the current one, and refuses to fix the violation (presumably because it would be bad for their business), you're basically SOL anyway: you will run out of money to keep a lawsuit going long before corporation X runs out of legal devices to delay or obstruct you. No amount of rejiggering of a license is going to change that. Nor, for that matter, will not giving any license and relying on copyright law: you're still in the same position.
> The original version of the CC license stated that the license would “terminate automatically upon any breach.” That meant that if you failed to live up to the license terms in any substantial way, you were no longer a licensed user of the copyrighted work. Any uses you had made of that work were no longer permitted under the license, so unless you had another basis for using it (for example, if your use qualified as “fair use”), then you were now infringing copyright.
Recall that “willful” copyright infringement carries a statutory penalty of $150,000.
[Copyleft trolls say:] we’ll find people who made minor errors in their use of your Creative Commons works, and then send them a speculative invoice for a “license,” on threat of a copyright lawsuit that could run them $150 grand plus legal fees.
An invalidated license may not be that, I don't know, but once the license is clearly terminated, any use of that work would then be wilful.
So if you have a bluray movie for sale, you'd have to pull copies, and reissue edited without the image. Art would have to be taken off the walls. Logos rebranded.
This often doesn't matter. What they're looking for is something to sue you for that isn't so blatantly absurd it would get their lawyers disbarred for making the claim, not something they can necessarily win on the merits.
Then they go to you and say hey, it'll cost you this many thousand dollars to hire a lawyer and defend against this lawsuit in court -- even if you win. Or, you can just pay a fraction of that right now and it will all go away.
That's ultimately why the loser of a civil case should be on the hook for all attorneys fees and court costs. I'd actually go further and argue that a plaintiff who initiates a frivolous lawsuit should have to pay damages to the victim for the losses caused by having to defend such a case.
Copyright in the US has an option for fee shifting. Usually it's loser pays, and there's limits on how much can be shifted, but there was a case where a zealously litigious photographer wound up being on the hook for the loser's attorney's fees because the loser had offered to settle the case for a reasonable amount early on, but the photographer thought they could get more money, which they didn't.
A lawyer I know once pointed out that a good first step one receipt of anything like this is to reply with "Please provide me with the full name and address of your counsel so I may know to whom I should address subsequent correspondence."
If you do not receive an answer, you are not dealing with someone who is serious about taking you to court.
If you do receive an answer, you should immediately check whether that person is actually licensed to practice law (you can usually check online). If not, report to the relevant bar association that [name] is presenting themselves as licensed to practice law (don't be spooky, send the full details to the bar association).
Only if you are put in contact with an actual lawyer should you waste any energy thinking about this further.
And if they are start preparing to represent yourself and how to write a submission to request summary judgement on the basis that you are now in compliance having been made aware of your technical non-compliance.
>"Please provide me with the full name and address of your counsel so I may know to whom I should address subsequent correspondence."
>If not, report to the relevant bar association that [name] is presenting themselves as licensed to practice law (don't be spooky, send the full details to the bar association).
In the US, at least, are people not allowed to represent themselves as their own counsel?
In the US, you cannot say that you are an attorney if you are not actually an attorney. Doing so is a crime: fraud. This is important, because if you're paying money to someone to be your attorney, it's important that they actually know what they're doing :)
In the US, to be an attorney, one needs to pass the state's bar in the relevant area of law that one would practice.
> In the US, at least, are people not allowed to represent themselves as their own counsel?
Sure they can. But they can't say "I'm an attorney." That's what OP is getting at.
For more context -- In the US, anyone can sue anyone for any reason. However, that doesn't mean it's going to be a valid or even successful suit. Except in small claims court, representing yourself in a legal situation is an absolutely terrible idea. Not only will you most certainly loose the suit for not following the proper legal procedures (pesky things like having an actual legal argument, presenting valid evidence, citing relevant laws and case precedents, understanding the opposing counsel's legal argument, evidence, citations, etc.) you could easily get yourself into a situation where you'd be wasting so much time and resources by fucking up that you could be slapped with a fine yourself! Or, let's say you're in court, have no idea what you're doing, and get so frustrated you start becoming unreasonable -- contempt of court, put into jail until you calm down.
tl;dr You can't say you're an attorney if you're not one, that's a crime (fraud). If you interact with the legal system without an attorney, you're going to get screwed. :)
>"Please provide me with the full name and address of your counsel so I may know to whom I should address subsequent correspondence."
All true of course. However, that is not how I read it. It said put me in touch with your counsel. If their answer is "I am my own counsel" then your take is that this is a crime?
Of course, I understand if they say "I am an attorney" and they are not. But that is not what is being said. It reads like a grimy way for a bigger business to try to "trap" people without as many resources.
The original email sent from Pixsy contained the following text, which the author ignored by publishing the email in entirety.
> PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail, its contents, and attachments are private and confidential and is intended for the recipient only. Any disclosure, copying or unauthorized use of such information is prohibited.
Can someone with knowledge comment on this practice? Are these just empty words? Or is it legally enforceable to send an email and forbid "copying" or publishing/disclosing the contents?
Unfortunately for them Cory Doctorow’s email signature is:
> READ CAREFULLY. By reading this email, you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.
So if such signatures are enforceable then his signature is too, which nullifies the whole thing.
I'd assume that's unenforceable. You agree something by agreeing it, not just by reading the text of the agreement. How can you agree something you haven't yet finished reading?
Anyone arguing that it is invalid and unenforceable is arguing to invalidate their own, equally unenforceable ‘private and confidential’ note at the bottom of their original emails.
I may have to tweak my disclaimer in that direction too. Anywhere I deliberately list my contact details I always try to include text the effect that “Please note that any communication sent to these addresses/numbers will be accepted as a gift which I own and condo with anything I please, including but not limited to publicly publishing it and ridiculing you for my amusement should I feel the need or the want. If you are uncomfortable with this, feel free to refrain from contacting me. If you wish to negotiate some form of non-disclosure agreement, drop me a message stating just that, and I will ask my legal adviser to send you the relevant schedule of charges for the time that will require. Simply assuming such an agreement is in place, or unilaterally declaring one, in an email footer or elsewhere, is not sufficient.”.
Yes. Without some kind of existing contract in place, they're meaningless.
> Or is it legally enforceable to send an email and forbid "copying" or publishing/disclosing the contents?
Only in extremely rare circumstances. It can be legally useful to put a note saying "Hey, this email contains trade secrets. If it was accidentally sent to you, you might want to think twice about further disseminating or selling these trade secrets." But the case law on this is quite weak, and putting the disclaimer on every email even if they don't contain trade secrets may be counter-productive by diluting the claim even in cases where it actually would apply. It's debatable but many legal scholars would assume similarly for a disclaimer on every single email saying "This is attorney-client privileged." unless maybe your business is a law firm.
I'm not sure that it has been applied to email, but that would make for some very interesting cases. (Is Intellectual Property merchandise? Rights assigned to the content of the message?)
> Are these just empty words? Or is it legally enforceable
Neither. The purpose of this language isn’t to bind the recipient; it’s to guard against claims that the sender waived privilege.
> “inadvertent disclosure” of privileged material does not operate as a waiver so long as (i) the privilege holder took “reasonable steps to prevent disclosure”; and (ii) the privilege holder took “reasonable steps to rectify the error.”
That likely depends on where you are and what the content actually is. In Denmark where i am located, it would definitely not apply in most cases. Of course, if you are a lawyer communicating with your client it would be protected, but that would be the case even without the disclaimer.
If you send me an unsolicited email, you can't bind me legally by appending a stack of demands and requirements. Much the same would apply to printed correspondence sent by post. I am not bound by your demands unless I have signed a contract with you to that effect. Random lawyers can't impose conditions on me just by writing to me.
So yes, they're empty words, like a lot of what lawyers write.
Not a lawyer but it doesn’t look like any legal claim to me. They’re just telling you what they prohibit. I prohibit you from saying “balderdash”, but if you still do there’s not much I can do about it but stomp and pout.
To add to what reaperman said about no existing contract: I can't just send a random stranger an email saying "you agree to give me 50$". There is no existing legal relationship to make that claim.
IANAL. However I find that with law, you can just imagine how sociopaths would abuse a system. If you don't see that happening, then that's not how the system works.
The actual content I would expect is the following 3 points.
1. What the old clause of the license was
2. What kind of unintended side effect it had
3. What the new clause addressing this is
Summing up those 3 points results in a clear paragraph of maybe 5 to 10 lines. Meanwhile I challenge anyone who hasn't read it to extract that content from the article in less than 15 minutes.
Cory Doctorow is an established and prolific author of over 20 years. Pretty sure he's not changing his writing style for people with short attention spans who mislabel things as clickbait.
I feel that people who go on and on about 'clickbait' simply don't like reading... Feed the article to GPT if all you want is a bulleted list of points. Or just skim!
You say "If you can't even satisfy such simple terms, it's your own fault." But you yourself fail to satisfy such simple terms as HN's Guidelines[1], which clearly state "Don't be snarky."
You're missing the point. The problem isn't copyright infringement, the problem is that the law says any instance of copyright infringement results in 150k statutory damages without having to prove damages.
Thus, a minor copyright issue like this will result in disproportionate consequences. Nothing else works like this, and it's the root cause behind all of these trolls.
Court costs can be much more expensive than the defendant can reasonably afford, even if they're likely to win. The copyright trolls take advantage of this by demanding less money than the court costs would actually sum up to, making it financially pointless to defend yourself rather than immediately pay up.
I agree that the grace period is also not a perfect solution, but I fail to see how anybody could consider the copyright trolls referenced in the article as anything more than predatory drains taking advantage of a legal technicality to drain money from innocent people. An honest typo regarding license text should not cost a person thousands of dollars, and copyright is one of the few places where it can do so, thanks to repeated lobbying and legal abuse.
To my knowledge, the court doesn't cost anything unless you're the one bringing the case to them or you choose to consult private counsel which is not mandatory.
I would also argue that calling those legitimate businesses "predators" is a ideological position that is highly subjective.
"Big whoop. If you can't even satisfy such simple terms, it's your own fault."
Banal mistakes shouldn't destroy people. Imagine if a slightly incorrect use of a light switch gave you an electric shock, or a slightly incorrect use of an OTC medication (10 minutes after a meal instead of 10 minutes before a meal) would kill you.
You and all your loved ones would have been long dead. Big whoop. If you can't even satisfy such simple terms, it's your own fault.
The result of said litigation absolutely can, as far as you consider "crushing fees" a personal destruction. I definitely do.
"Also a contract is serious business."
What does it even mean? That you are fond of heavy punishments? Shouldn't there be a principle of proportionality applied?
Driving is a serious business too, does not mean that each DUI is met with a 150 000 USD fine.
I still can't help but wonder how your "crush them all" attitude does not reflect the possibility that you can be on the receiving end of such blow. Or perhaps you just prefer a world in which anyone can be destroyed for banal incidents. Weird. What is the upside of that? People will still make mistakes, and, moreover, people will start avoiding any creative work, thus creating an enormous invisible cost to society.
You're mixing together matters pertaining to criminal cases (a DUI is a threat to society) and civil disputes (people have a disagreement about money) in ways that don't make sense at all.
Copyright infringement aims to compensate the original author for the work he did that was not compensated for. There being a statutory fee not only streamlines the process and simplifies the otherwise hard evaluation of potential loss, but also discourages copyright infringement to begin with.
A DUI is more about making sure you don't put other people at risk, so instead the government will take away your driving license or put you in prison.
Unfortunately, saying "contract is serious business" helps nobody. Much as it would be nice to not have to encounter any contracts (or even just not obscenely many) in the modern world, that is just largely not impossible, so people have to deal with it somehow, and it would be nice if that doesn't include random $150000 fines.
I can see an argument for the copyright trolls on it being wilful infringement if there was some attribution but not all of it - clearly the infringer is aware that there must be attribution otherwise there wouldn't be any, but they still ended up infringing; of course a court could still decide either way, but most sane people without millions of disposable money wouldn't risk the $150k if they can pay a couple thousand and be done with it; and either of those can still destroy a person.
Calling the mistake "banal" is already a judgement call. If the requirement is in the license then presumably whoever emitted the license cared about the clause being respected to the letter.
For all I know, the law has effective sanctions against this practice, but I imagine there are ways of sending a first notice in a way that make it unlikely to be received - a typo in the address, or perhaps an email crafted so as to likely be classified as spam.